Comments on: Can a Human Rights Lawyer Be Pro-Israel? https://www.asylumist.com/2014/07/31/can-a-human-rights-lawyer-be-pro-israel/ Asylum and Its Discontents in the United States Wed, 11 Oct 2023 10:47:15 +0000 hourly 1 By: I Stand With Israel – The Asylumist https://www.asylumist.com/2014/07/31/can-a-human-rights-lawyer-be-pro-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-162652 Wed, 11 Oct 2023 10:47:15 +0000 http://www.asylumist.com/?p=3828#comment-162652 […] peacetime (or what passes for peacetime in the Middle East), I often find myself in profound disagreement with certain policies of the Israeli government. Many American Jews face a similar dilemma: We […]

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By: Jason Dzubow https://www.asylumist.com/2014/07/31/can-a-human-rights-lawyer-be-pro-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-15217 Wed, 20 Aug 2014 02:09:27 +0000 http://www.asylumist.com/?p=3828#comment-15217 In reply to Fernando.

I wouldn’t even go that far. I don’t know that I am ashamed of Israel’s actions, I just disagree with them. That, unfortunately, is not tolerated among many in the American Jewish community.

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By: Fernando https://www.asylumist.com/2014/07/31/can-a-human-rights-lawyer-be-pro-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-15194 Tue, 19 Aug 2014 19:12:13 +0000 http://www.asylumist.com/?p=3828#comment-15194 Many people can be ashamed of the actions of their government, but still love their country. I’m guessing many of your clients are in that camp. There’s nothing wrong with that, and it doesn’t make you anti-Israel either. I agree, the Israeli government and its supporters could use a little self-criticism every now and then.

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By: Jason Dzubow https://www.asylumist.com/2014/07/31/can-a-human-rights-lawyer-be-pro-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-14562 Sun, 10 Aug 2014 12:05:44 +0000 http://www.asylumist.com/?p=3828#comment-14562 In reply to KLV.

I normally accept all comments. However, you have made 12 or 13 comments, all of which seem to be information that was cut and pasted from other sources, and which basically repeats the “information” you include here. I have concluded that this is spam and it has been erased. If you care to comment on what I actually wrote, you are welcome.

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By: Jason Dzubow https://www.asylumist.com/2014/07/31/can-a-human-rights-lawyer-be-pro-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-14561 Sun, 10 Aug 2014 12:03:12 +0000 http://www.asylumist.com/?p=3828#comment-14561 In reply to Cata Manooch.

I think you miss the fundamental point of the article – which is the values associated with liberal Jewish thought vs the values embraced by the “pro-Israel” camp.

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By: KLV https://www.asylumist.com/2014/07/31/can-a-human-rights-lawyer-be-pro-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-14546 Sun, 10 Aug 2014 09:58:51 +0000 http://www.asylumist.com/?p=3828#comment-14546 Jason,

The problem is that you fundamentally do not understand Islam, not “Muslims” but Islam. Muslims are human beings just like everyone else, but when professed Muslims are devout, they are emulating the Prophet Muhammad.

The Quran states over 90 times that Mohammad is the ideal Muslim who all devout Muslims are to emulate, i.e., in Islam Mohammad is known as al-Insan al-Kamil (the perfect human) and uswa hasana (an excellent model of conduct).

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Qur’an 33:21
http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/033-qmt.php#033.021
Certainly you have in the Messenger of Allah an excellent exemplar for him who hopes in Allah and the latter day and remembers Allah much.

Qur’an 68:4
http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/068-qmt.php#068.004
And most surely you conform (yourself) to sublime morality.
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Therefore, Muhammad is the standard, the norm and any Muslim who emulates him is by definition of Islam, NOT an “extremist” or a “radical.

It is documented in the Qur’an, the Hadith (Traditions of Muhammad) and the Sira (Sacred Biography of Muhammad), that Mohammad was a warlord, a thief, a slave holder, a torturer, a rapist, a pedophile and a mass murderer.

He taught peace in Mecca for 13 years and gained all of 150 followers. He was forced to move to Yathrib (later renamed Medina), where he became a politician and a warlord.

In Medina he evicted 2 of the Jewish tribes through force and slaughtered the 3rd Jewish Tribe that lived there because they rejected his “religion” (he also took their possessions, which made him rich). Muhammad and his men beheaded the 800 men and boys (if they had one pubic hair) of the last tribe, the Banu Qurayza, which he had taken prisoner. Muhammad took their women and children as slaves (the women probably as sex slaves). Ibn Ishaq (693) says some of the women were taken to Najd and sold for weapons and horses. Muhammad made Medina Judenrein (Jew free).

Year 1 in the Islamic Calender is 622 AD, which marks Mohammad’s Hijra (immigration) from Mecca to Medina and also marks the switch from preaching peace to waging war. In Medina he spread Islam through subjugation and violence for the last 9 years of his life and conquered all of Arabia and gained approximately 100,000 followers. The success of Islam is based on politics and violence, not on religion and peace.

In Islam, the conflict between the earlier peaceful Meccan Quran and the later violent Medinan Quran is handled through the concept of “Naskh” or abrogation (Quran 2:106, 13:39, 16:101, 17:85-86, 87:6-7, & many Hadiths). The last significant chronological Sura of the Quran, is Sura 9 (the first Sura is 96 and the last Sura is 110 but contains only 3 verses as the Quran was reordered from the longest to the shortest chapter in the 7th Century by Caliph Uthman).

Sura 9 contains practical instructions for future wars and how to wage them (rules for warfare). It is the only Sura that does not begin with “bi’-smi’llahi’r-Rahmani’r-Rahim” (“In the name of Allah, the beneficent, the merciful”). It is the harshest and most violent Sura and being it was the last significant Sura, it is not subject to abrogation. It requires the believers to slay the unbelievers where ever they are found if they oppose conversion.

Based on the words and deeds of Mohammad, Islam is Jihad, i.e., War against the Kuffar (non-believers).

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By: Cata Manooch https://www.asylumist.com/2014/07/31/can-a-human-rights-lawyer-be-pro-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-14544 Sun, 10 Aug 2014 08:26:17 +0000 http://www.asylumist.com/?p=3828#comment-14544 I find this very disturbing. I’m sorry to say that the question itself is obscene. It is almost too absurd to respond to. “Can a human rights lawyer be pro-Israel?” — How could anybody who cares about human rights NOT be pro-Israel?

The anecdote the author tells about joining Jews dancing at Hebron is very telling. THIS is what he feels ashamed about? Jews dancing–at a place that for Jews is second in holiness only to their ancient capital Jerusalem; a place that has been Jewish for 6000 years; which was co-opted late in the game by Islam–less than 1500 years ago?

What blind, double-standard against oneself is operating on this writer?

For him, the big ‘offense’ of the Jews was DANCING and disturbing some Muslim men at their prayer. Do you know what Muslims do to Jews and Christians who attempt to pray at their own holy sites? I’ll give you a hint: it isn’t dancing.

To ask this question–when Israel is patently the single greatest upholder of human rights in the world at this time (and this includes the US, Europe, etc); the most humanitarian at the greatest cost in danger and the blood of its own citizens to itself of anyplace on earth–is to betray a bias so deep that it isn’t surprising that the writer is unable to hear or respond to any of the excellent material that has already been printed here, above.

And he asks this at a time when Israel is, once again, facing an existential threat, from an enemy so brutal and hate-filled that it raises its children from earliest infancy to serve the sole goal of extermination of all Jews (while at the same time living off Israeli largesse in providing it food, building materials, and medical treatments)…

Well, I’ll end with someone else’s words–I can’t give the credit, as I don’t remember her name; but these words are clearly true:

Israel wants peace. Hamas wants genocide. That’s the fact.

There’s nothing ambiguous about it.

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By: Jason Dzubow https://www.asylumist.com/2014/07/31/can-a-human-rights-lawyer-be-pro-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-14425 Fri, 08 Aug 2014 01:56:15 +0000 http://www.asylumist.com/?p=3828#comment-14425 In reply to Patti Lyman.

Thank you for # 2. As for # 1, I admit that generalizations are always dangerous, but my observations of the Christian Zionist movement–and CUFI in particular–is that they are anti-Muslim. Not anti-Muslim extremist, but anti-Muslim. Not only do I find this contrary to my own values, but it is counterproductive to reaching a peaceful conclusion to the conflict over there. Of course, my opinion matters little in this regard. The Jewish American “pro-Israel” camp has made its choice, but that choice is excluding many committed Jews, including me, who used to feel at home being called pro-Israel.

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By: Patti Lyman https://www.asylumist.com/2014/07/31/can-a-human-rights-lawyer-be-pro-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-14408 Thu, 07 Aug 2014 17:51:05 +0000 http://www.asylumist.com/?p=3828#comment-14408 1. Jason, you do not at all understand why serious Christians are largely pro-Israel, and vociferously so. The roots of that alliance are deep and have nothing to do with Muslims. You have really missed the mark.

2. I enjoy your posts on asylum law far more than those of this type.

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By: Jason Dzubow https://www.asylumist.com/2014/07/31/can-a-human-rights-lawyer-be-pro-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-14294 Wed, 06 Aug 2014 01:46:09 +0000 http://www.asylumist.com/?p=3828#comment-14294 In reply to Truth Teller.

Actually, I deal every day with people who are victims of extremist Muslims. My clients, and millions like them, are working hard to overcome the extremists and create a more egalitarian and modern Islamic society. In fact, many of my clients’ strongest advocates are members of the US military who have worked closely with them. I am sorry, but the idea that hating all Muslims is somehow “realistic” or tough is ridiculous. It is intellectually lazy and cowardly, and it will only result in more death on both sides. We need to be working to empower moderates, not undercut them. Unfortunately, I don’t see that goal as one that Israel or the mainstream American Jewish community has much interest in pursuing.

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