Ali Anisi Tehrani is an asylee from Iran. He raised some of these issue in a conversation we had one day over lunch, and I asked whether he might put his thoughts into a blog post. He was kind enough to do so–
“I think we should look to countries like Denmark, like Sweden and Norway, and learn from what they have accomplished for their working people,” Senator Sanders says. He’s not alone. Many Americans envy the Nordic countries, with their affordable education, health care for all, and subsidized child care.
While these countries are wonderful places to visit, as a political refugee who has spent time in Sweden, I fear that maybe this Nordic Valhalla would not be so heavenly for immigrants after all. Whatever it means for politicians like Bernie Sanders and his supporters, my experience tells me that in the long run, the Scandinavian model would be a disaster for immigrants and for people who plan to immigrate to the United States.
I have spent almost equal time in Sweden and the U.S. I enjoyed Swedish collective generosity and I studied there for free. The Swedes were even kind enough to send me to the U.S. as an exchange student with full medical insurance! An immigrant friend of mine had three surgeries there and spent weeks in hospitals. He paid very little. In fact, everyone in Sweden has health care and the deductible for medical expenses and medicine was only about $100. In a way, everything was perfect!
So what the heck am I doing in Washington, DC? Why did I leave the Nordic utopia and move to a country with no social benefits (even after receiving asylum, I was not eligible for short-term medical insurance in Virginia because I earned more than $150 per month)? Perhaps things in Sweden are not as they seem.
I lived in a small town in Sweden, not super immigrant-friendly. Everyone was nice and polite, and I never had any encounter that could be called explicitly racist or hateful. But I always had the sense that I was unwelcome. That I was a sort-of black sheep (or perhaps a brown one). I can’t say I would feel any different if I were in their shoes: Why should I work in order to pay for some foreigner’s education and benefits? Maybe as a result of this sentiment, the law in Sweden changed in 2011, and free education for foreign students was abolished.
The current situation in Sweden (and across Europe) is now quite disturbing. We are in the midst of the worst human catastrophe since World War II, and Sweden plans to reject up to 80,000 people who applied for asylum in the country last year; as many as half will be forced to leave against their will. Denmark, Sweden’s neighbor to the south, recently passed laws allowing the authorities to seize any assets exceeding $1,450 from asylum-seekers in order to help pay for the migrants’ subsistence (items of “sentimental value,” such as wedding rings, are exempt).
Many Swedes, even people who knew me personally and knew that I could not return to my native Iran, had a naive and sincere question: “So… when do you go back?” I never took it personally because I knew they did not ask me to be mean; they asked because they were really interested in the answer. During my three years in the U.S., no one has asked me this question. Literally, not one person! I have been welcomed here by many people; I don’t recall being welcomed in Sweden in this way. Maybe it’s just a lucky coincidence. Maybe.
If we take a look at some numbers, we might see one reason why immigrants are (or are not) wanted.
In 2014, the unemployment rate for native-born Swedes was about 5.1%; the foreign-born unemployment rate was 15.5%. It was about the same in Denmark: 5.4% for native-born Danes and almost 12% for immigrants. In Finland, the unemployment rates were 7.5% and 16.3% for native and non-native born people. That makes sense: Foreign-born workers may not know the language or culture, they have limited networks, and they may not have the education or skills required to succeed.
There’s a different story in the U.S. In 2014, there were 25.7 million foreign-born people in the labor force, comprising 16.5% of all workers. The unemployment rate for foreign-born persons in the United States was 5.6%, while the jobless rate for native-born Americans was 6.3%. What!? The unemployment rate for foreigners is lower than for native-born citizens? How can this be?
To me, the difference is that no one in the United States sees me as an extra person taking their social welfare benefits. Instead, they see me as another taxpayer pulling my own weight. There is opportunity here that does not exist in other countries. Of course, social and cultural norms are different in homogeneous societies like Sweden and Denmark, but I still believe that the most influential factor explaining how immigrants in different societies are treated is economic. Because of this, I worry that a Bernie Sander-style social democracy might make life in the United States more difficult, and less welcoming, for foreign-born residents like me.
Dear Jason,
Greeting and thank you for your valuable information you have been providing. What is the expected time wait for pending asylum interview after added in to short list/ short notice from your experience . I tried to ask my USCIS service office but could not give me satisfactory answer.
Best regards,
There is no average – sometimes you ask to expedite an asylum case and it happens quickly; other times, there is no response; other times, they say “no”; and still other times, you wait for many months and then get an interview. It is not predictable. Take care, Jason
Thank you for usual swift response, cheers
As others above have indicated, Ali’s experience probably holds true for immigrants in most American cities, where immigrants have always been part of the social fabric. I’d be interested to hear from recent immigrants who’ve settled in rural towns in traditionally conservative areas of the country, especially towns that have no existing immigrants from their home country/region. How common is such a scenario?
While I have you, Jason, I want to pass along that the asylee I’m hosting here in Seattle just received a letter from the USCIS office in Lincoln, NE indicating that his EAD application was transferred to the Arlington, VA office for processing. The letter’s wording was a bit curious; it said something like, “your application is being transferred to an office with jurisdiction…” which made it sound like his application was originally sent to the wrong office (which definitely was not the case, as it was sent to the Phoenix dropbox address). It seemed like they just used boilerplate language in this instance to provide notice of the transfer. The letter arrive about 3 weeks after our friend submitted his application. His attorney’s take on the situation is that the USCIS is trying to best utilize available resources. Does that sound about right to you?
thanks
Thank you for the comment. I do think the experience could be different in a less metropolitan place. As for the EAD case, I have not heard about them being sent to Arlington for processing. They do get transferred all around USCIS, but I am a bit surprised they would be sent there, as it is just an asylum office and does not process EADs (unless there is something new I don’t know). The local USCIS office is in Fairfax, VA. I’d be curious to hear what happens with the EAD. Take care, Jason
I suspect that the EAD was transferred to the “Potomac Service Center” in Arlington. I have had this happen in several cases. I think it is a newly established service center, and has no connection with ZAR.
Thanks – I did not know about that; I will look for it in my cases. Take care, Jason
Dear Jason,
I have applied for assylum in November last year and my case is pending for now. I came across some health issue (spine injury) about a month ago. It usually goes away in 4-5 weeks but in serious cases it does not. I think I have got some serious issue but as I have no status so far I cannot apply for insurance or go to see a doctor. Do you think I need some official proof to ask for expedition?
Also, Is it better to go in person to asylum office or to email them? I tried calling, they dont talk on phone at all.
Thank you very much.
I do think it would be helpful if you have evidence of the injury. Without that, it will be harder to expedite, and in general, even with evidence it is difficult to get a case expedited these days. You can email them or go in person; maybe it is easier to go in person, but you need to check when they are open. You can do that if you follow the link at right called Asylum Office Locator. Take care, Jason
Hi
Jason I am assistant professor in my country and I have difficulties find job in US because they need U.S experience and education. Life here is more competitive because of high number of graduated every year. Why they have to hire person who is not speaking English fluently if they have native qualified alternatives?
I have questions about my work permit form, so I hope to get answer:
1- About the eligibility criteria: is it c 08? .
2- Is the address in the 765 form should be consistence with the address in the I-589 form?
3- In the I-765 form they required the below documents which I do not know what are they?:
A copy of the USCIS acknowledgement mailer;
Evidence that your Form I-589 was filed with EOIR;
Evidence that your asylum application remains under
administrative or judicial review; or A copy of the USCIS acknowledgement mailer
Thank you for your time and effort
I am looking for your reply as I wait 150 days and do not want to wait more because of wrong filling.
I can’t really provide this type of specific advice. You need to read the instructions on the I-765. If you have difficultly with that, it is worthwhile to hire a lawyer to help you. Take care, Jason
Hi Jason. Let me start by saying that you do wonderful things like blogging specifically about about asylum and more importantly help almost everyone in the comment section with tips etc.
I do not agree with Ali because this is already a diverse country. How things plays out in a diverse country will be different than how things plays out in a single race dominant country like Sweden. I think demographics is more important than economy. When in 2008 the economy took a dive, immigrants were not treated any better or worse than they are treated today. But since Donald trump managed to fire up a certain demographic, things have changed. No one talked about money when they argue about bringing in more refugees, they talk hatred and fear.
What sanders will probably try bring here is change in social policies not change in demographics. As Ali said networking matters a lot for employment and when you see 99.9 people out of 100 making you feel unwelcomed and 97 of those dont even understand your language, I think 15.6% is actually a better number. Immigrants in the US do have large networks among their own nationalities and hence they land a job somewhere. Its a Korean guy working at a store owned by a Korean and Indian guy working at a Indian liquor store.
US has always been slightly a socialist country with food stamps, free public education up until high school degree, now subsidized Obamacare, Medicare, social security etc etc and most of the times argument not about immigrants tapping into those but how potentially dangerous they are, how they are not respecting the laws etc. Remember when Donald trump justifies his deportation plan he never mentions how they are damaging the economy but mentions how dare they break the law and how bad bad and rapist people they are. Cruz and Rubio did mention limiting H1Bs but its the fear and hatred that actually resonates which will, hopefully never, ultimately move the whole country towards that rhetoric.
I can argue all day but no Sanders policy is not danger for asylees or immigrants. NO. If his policies are better for the country, thats a different argument.
Thank you – I don’t think his policies are bad for immigrants. I think Ali’s point is more of a big-picture view of the two countries and how they treat immigrants. It’s difficult to know what is behind that treatment, whether it is ethnic or economic, so your point is well taken. I do think that here, among people who oppose immigration, there is an economic element to their position. I think it is incorrect, as the evidence supports a conclusion that immigration generally helps an economy (though certain people in the economy may be harmed by immigration), but that is what they believe. Take care, Jason
Hey Jason,
Thanks again for helpful articles.
I have a question regarding to decision of asylum interview.
I’m minor asylum seeker and interviewed week ago.
Is it possible for asylum office to give the decision after two weeks or they are just telling everyone which you will recieve the decision after two weeks?
They sometimes tell you that a decision will be ready in 2 weeks, but then it is not ready. That is pretty common, and does not mean anything good or bad about the result. Hopefully, you will get a good decision soon. Take care, Jason
I mean it happens to make decision after two weeks?
I mean it is possible to get a decision 2 weeks after the interview – if you are lucky.
Hi Jason I have one question while my asylum is pending I received a mail to send more documents to USCIS for my change of status application to f1,which was applied before my asylum application my question is is that request can stop my asylum EAD clock or not
I do not think this will affect the asylum EAD. You change to F-1 could be denied because you are filing for asylum and the two applications (F-1 and asylum) are not compatible: With F-1, you promise to leave the US when you are done studying; with asylum, you are asking to stay permanently. We have had clients change to F-1 while their asylum case was pending, but USCIS certainly could deny the F-1 for this reason. Take care, Jason
Hi Jason,
I highly appreciate what you are doing in providing information for asylum seekers in this difficult period of our life. I do have one quick question. I have applied for the renewal of my EAD almost 4 months ago. So far, I haven’t heard anything from USCIS apart from the receipt notice. Other people whom I know applied for their first EAD almost two months later and they have already got their EAD. I am worried why mine is so late while theirs is fast. Do EAD renewal requests take longer time than first EAD requests in getting responses from USCIS?
Thanks,
Johnson
Renewals do typically take longer (USCIS is changing the process, which may help you in the future; I wrote about that a few weeks ago). We are seeing EADs take about 4 months, so hopefully you will receive it soon. You can always call USCIS or make an Info Pass appointment to check (you can find information about both at http://www.uscis.gov), but maybe wait a few more weeks, as you should receive the card. Take care, Jason
Hello Jason,
I hope you are doing good. I am an Asian native and was doing my Masters in Europe. However, in the middle of my Masters I had to come to US and submitted my Asylum case. Now I see that it’s very unlikely that I get interviewed before 2 years. So I was thinking maybe to apply Advance parole and get back to Europe to finish my degree. Do you think it’s even possible? To stay out on Advance parole for about 10 months? If yes then what could be the problems?
Thank you very much.
You can try – you apply using form I-131. I doubt that USCIS will allow you to stay out of the US for 10 months, but maybe. If you get the Advance Parole, and they give it to you for 10 or more months, I suppose you can go and return here for your case. Take care, Jason
Thank you very much for your input Jason. But do you think that staying in Europe for 10 months can effect my asylum application in some way?
Probably – the Asylum Office will perhaps think you can live in Europe. If so, they will think you do not need asylum in the US. Take care, Jason
Also, if there is any case in your knowledge that a person is not allowed to enter US even with advance parole?
I do not know of such a case. However, you could be denied entry and then forced to seek asylum at the border, meaning you might be detained. Also, I suppose you could be denied boarding the airplane, if they do not recognize the AP document. I have not heard about either of these things happening, but I suppose they are possible and there is always a risk that leaving the US will affect the case. Take care, Jason
Thank you very much Jason. This sounds scary. I was also thinking to write to USCIS this thing if they can expedite my case so then I wouldn’t need Advance parole then to go to Europe (but travel document which is safer). But now I think I should not do anything.
It would be worthwhile to consult with a lawyer about this – it is a shame to lose an opportunity to go to Europe, but 10 months is a long time to be outside of the US for AP, and I do not know whether USCIS would even agree to that, but you can try.
Interesting perspectives. Yes, clearly there is a difference between homogeneous countries and those that are not. I would offer, however, as a person who lived abroad for many years and came from the US Mid-west originally, that most Americans have very little exposure to other cultures. Remember only about 20% of us have passports – and far fewer use them for anything but tourist travel. To the author, the DC area (even in Northern Virginia) is not typical of the US generally. It is a huge urban area with the highest percentage of college educated residents and a large number of international workers (embassies, universities, exchange programs, think tanks, etc). There are a great many parts of the US where many Americans are not welcome if they are people of color. It is people have little experience beyond their conservative states who are responded to the Trump phenon. I do not say this to discourage you, but to bring some perspective to the experience. I highly recommend a book titled “Better Off Without “Em” to help you understand the tension in the US between the what Nixon formerly dubbed “The Southern Strategy” and the political reaction that we are experiencing today. Bernie’s message is so well received by many of us because the current system is not only racially biased, but highly economically biased. (If you don’t think so, listen to the hearings on the Flint Michigan water crisis – a perfect combination of economic discrimination toward a city with a high percentage of non-white citizens. It didn’t happen by accident. That is what we want to see change. The US will never be a Sweden – we have too much conflict and too many polarized views for that to happen. We could, however, become more humane – for our own citizens and for immigrants. And, even if the Democratic Party Machine prevents Bernie from getting the nomination, he has planted seeds that I hope will grow – especially with Millennials and those under 40 who will chose the leaders for the next couple of decades. Thank you for allowing me to share my perspective. I hope for better things in the future for all of us.
Thank you! I agree with you. And I feel the Bern, even though I can’t vote yet!
Thank you – Of course, I can’t speak for Ali, but for me, I don’t think it is the Democratic machine that is blocking Bernie, though certainly Hillary is supported by that machine. I think there has been too little work done to lay the foundation for the types of changes he is promoting. We need people with such views to run for local offices and to push these views from the ground up; not just from the top down. I think this was also a problem with Ralph Nader in 2000. I do think Bernie’s campaign, if he does not win, will at least lead to more people thinking about the issues he is raising, and hopefully that will lead to a broader movement for change. Take care, Jason
I think it’s a reflection of Americans’ popular patriotism that we’re less likely than Europeans to ask asylees when they’re going back. We assume that most people who can live in the US would naturally want to. (I think ZH’s different experience from Ali’s might be explicable if she isn’t an asylee; it’s only practical to ask someone on an F1 visa or the like how much time they have left to stay here). And I don’t a think a Bernie Sanders presidency would change our cultural attitude that much. Presidents come and go, but America changes slowly and at its own pace.
Sanders won’t be elected; I say that having futilely voted for him already. But even if he were, it’s doubtful he could change America into a European-style social democracy, even in two terms. And for asylees and other immigrants, there’s little to choose from between being resented for collecting government benefits and being resented for competing with natives for jobs, although I think the latter is better for our country.
By the way, do you have any idea what’s up with USCIS reducing the number of copies to be submitted with I-589 applications?
Thank you for the comment. I think advocates have been asking to reduce the number of copies for some time, and USCIS finally agreed. If Sanders were president, I bet he would reduce it to one copy. On that point, he has my vote. Take care, Jason
hi jason i am asylum applicant . its been more than 150days since i filled my application in vsc can i apply for EAD now and what are the required documents for EAD and where should i send the EAD application in newyork ? i will be thankful if u guide me ..
You should be eligible. You need to follow the instructions on the form web page, form I-765 available at http://www.uscis.gov. Take care, Jason
Hi Jason, I’m waiting for my initial EAD and it’s been like 3 months since i applied for the work permit. and now on the USCIS website my case status is like ”Case Terminated Benefit Received By Other Means.” could you please interpret this for me? my asylum application is pending and am still waiting for my interview. and I didn’t make any other application for other benefits or anything. It’s just frustrating and I don understand how this happened. Thank you!
I don’t know what that means. You can call them or make an InfoPass appointment to go in person (info for both is here: http://www.uscis.gov). Good luck, Jason
Hi Jason and Ali,
Interestingly, your thoughts re-iterate my impressions of Europe and Scandinavia in particular- the US relatively is more accepting of immigrants perhaps due to its nature as a land of immigrants. However, unfortunately, people seem more oblivious or deliberately disregarding to how the US came to existence and are becoming more intolerant to immigrants, especially immigrants from majority- Muslim countries like myself. And to make things worse, i’m a Hijabi.
Unlike Ali, there almost isn’t a single person who did not ask me when i’ll be going back or at least if i had plans of going back. I’m a PhD student in North Carolina. I came not knowing if i wanted to stay in the US or go back to my home country. I thought i’d leave the decision to the job prospects when i graduate. Now, i feel a lot more discouraged to stay even if i want to, simply because of the growing rhetoric of Islamophobia and Xenophobia in general.
If i were a US citizen i would vote for Bernie Sanders. Although i agree with Ali that economic factors are most influential in how a people look at immigrants, i don’t think Bernie Sanders as a President will necessarily change the US model to a Scandinavian one- immigrants/ refugees may get financial help for a limited period of time and then are to be left alone to pull their own weight, as Ali put it. If they can’t do that, then the US is not for them. It does not have to be unlimited support wherein they feel they don’t have to work anymore because the government will take care of them, when it is actually the tax money of the working class. The former case is definitely unfair and if i were in the shoes of a tax paying individual i would definitely and justifiably feel the resentment.
I share a lot of the beliefs that Bernie promotes. The US does not have to copy the Scandinavian model exactly, but i think the US needs a lot of reforms in the Scandinavian direction.
I can’t speak for Ali, but I think Bernie and Hillary would both be pretty good for immigrants (especially in comparison to Trump or Cruz). Your discouragement is very understandable, and it makes me think that our country’s Islamophobia will lead us to lose many people who would make great contributions to our country. It is a real shame. Thank you for the comment, Jason
Jason,
Lose many people who would make great contributions to our country, better than losing your life and moreover losing your country….
By the way I am not US Citizen, and Iam still Asylum applicant /pending…
of course there are good people that can serve this country…but you cant take the risk…Trump is completely right, and if he decided to kick us out then i never blame just ourselves
I am not sure I get your point, but even if Trump wins, I think he will have a hard time kicking out people who are already seeking asylum. Take care, Jason
Hello Jason,
I have a quick question. I am an asylum applicant who got interviewed recently at the Chicago Office. My EAD is expiring towards the end of May. I still haven’t applied to renew it, hoping that I will get my interview results “soon.” My EAD needs to be renewed for me to to be able to renew my Driver’s Licence as well, which is expiring in early May. I’ve read on online forums that EADs are taking 3-4 months to renew, which could mean I am looking at at least a couple of months without work permit and most likely without work in the summer. Do you suggest I pay the renewal fee and apply to renew the EAD or just wait for the asylum results?
Thanks!
You are probably better off to pay for the EAD (or request a fee waiver using form I-912). Maybe you will get a good decision tomorrow (hopefully), but maybe you will wait many months or maybe your case will be referred to court. I think it is better to get the EAD now and hopefully you won’t need it, and I would expect even if you file now that you may have a gap between your current EAD and the new one. Take care, Jason
Thanks for your response, Jason. I was leaning that way too. If I apply for EAD now and my asylum results come with positive response, does USCIS refund me the application fee? (Don’t laugh at me 🙂 Since I have a full time job until May, I doubt that I qualify for the Fee Waiver. I guess it is choosing between the two risks–losing $380 for nothing or stay for months without EAD.
If you get a refund of the money, it’s best that you don’t let me know. It might cause me to drop dead from surprise. Take care, Jason
🙂 That was funny, Jason!
There is some truth to this but it’s not glamorous ID the US either for couple of reasons I derive from personal experience:
1. There is nothing more demeaning then dealing and waiting for USCIS, and travel visas even r tax payers in legal status from some countries are a difficult process that you almost never want to leave and come back. As a Syrian on an h1b I feel like I’m in big big prison.
2. The past 5 years in the US, I felt that there is much less tolerance than before. All u have to do is turn on the TV, or read the forums and comments even on libral sites
Unfortunately, I can’t really disagree with you. USCIS has become more and more difficult to deal with, particularly for people from majority-Muslim countries, and certainly the xenophobia and hate that we are seeing daily in the presidential campaign and elsewhere is very upsetting. After the election, when we move on with our lives, maybe things will improve. I suppose I am not confident that they will, but I hope so. Take care, Jason
This is very enlightening, there are pros and cons but the acceptability of an individual in US is far more greater then any other country.
This goes back to the history of formation of US as land of immigrants which is still a backbone of its economy. Other countries should learn from US as how to own an immigrant and make him part of their society, culture providing a platform to benefit it’s economy.
I agree, this is more to do with the US’s history as a nation of immigrants than with Scandinavian-style social democracy. Ireland is more like the US than Scandinavia in many ways (no universal primary health care, for example), but there is still huge resentment of asylum seekers and migrant workers here.
Despite our frequent bouts of xenophobia, I do think we do a better job of this than any other country that I know of, and I think we are better off for it. Take care, Jason
Hi Jason,
thank you very much for your amazing blog . I applied for asylum in 2014 at Chicago Office, and I am waiting for interview. My EAD and EAD of my family will expire on July, 2016 . I will apply for renew EAD cards and I have 2 kids and they got at first time SSN and EAD .EAD for my kids will expire in july 2016, so my question , it is necessary to renew EAD cards for kids or no .Thank you for your assistance.
It’s up to you – you will need to pay for the EAD renewals or get a fee waiver, and if they are small, they probably don’t need the work permits, so it might be a waste of money. By the way, you can mail your renewal 120 days before the cards expire, and give the delays renewing EADs, you should do that. Take care, Jason
Thank you Jason, your posts are really helpful. I got interviewed in Omaha NE last May 2015 and still waiting the decision. Is it normal thing to wait for this long? what is usual waiting time? And again THANK YOU so much.
There is no “usual” wait time, and we have had many clients waiting as long as you, or longer (unfortunately). The situation has been particularly bad the last 6 months or so, and it is rare to receive a decision or an interview notice. The Asylum Office is hiring more people and trying to make improvements, so hopefully things will improve. Take care, Jason
Hi Aj I was wondering if you could post your timeline as far as when you originally applied for asylum to give me idea of how long the wait is. I’m in Omaha Ne too and still waiting for my interview. Thank you for the info
aug 2013 filed.
sept 2013 first interview.
oct 2013 dependant re-interview
apr 2015 RFE
aug 2015 2nd fingerprint
mar 2016 dependant 2nd fingerprint
…..waiting…waiting…waiting…
I saw many people will receive decision or interview after 2nd fingerprint, hope I will receive one too.
finger crossing for all
Good luck – We do see some people get decisions after a second fingerprinting, but not always. Take care, Jason