The case of Detroit-area immigration lawyer David Wenger has been in the news lately. Mr. Wenger was recently sentenced to 18 months in prison for counseling his client to lie to the Immigration Court.
Mr. Wenger’s client is a 45-year-old Albanian citizen who has lived in the U.S. since he was six months old. The client’s family, including his daughter, live in the United States as well. Apparently, the client landed in removal proceedings due to a 2013 controlled-substance conviction, but the source of Mr. Wenger’s troubles stem from the client’s decades-old conviction for criminal sexual misconduct.
It seems that Mr. Wenger feared that if the Immigration Judge became aware of the sexual misconduct conviction, the client would have been deported. Having witnessed the tragedy of deportation many times, and particularly the pain it causes to the children of the deported, Mr. Wenger took matters into his own hands and tried to cover up the old conviction. It didn’t work.
Now, Mr. Wenger is going to jail and the client–while still in the United States–faces an uncertain future.
Mr. Wenger’s tale has caused some buzz among my fellow immigration lawyers. Mostly, it is described as “sad,” and certainly there is an undercurrent of sympathy for a man whose advocacy crossed a line that we, as lawyers, are trained to approach. I’ve known criminal defense lawyers, for example, who say that if you don’t go to jail for contempt once in a while, you’re not doing your job. And certainly there is an element of truth to this: When you are advocating for an individual against The Man, you have to use all the tools at your disposal and push the limits of the law to protect your client. That is our job–and our duty–as lawyers. But such zealous advocacy has inherent risks, as Mr. Wenger’s story reminds us.
So I suppose I understand Mr. Wenger’s motivation to lie. But I do not understand how he thought he might get away with it in this particular case. The U.S. government keeps records of criminal convictions, and the DHS attorney in the case would likely have known about the old conviction. So even if you are not morally opposed to lying, I don’t see the point of lying about something that the government knows already.
The temptations faced by Mr. Wenger are amplified in my practice area–asylum–where the U.S. government rarely has independent evidence about the problems faced by asylum seekers overseas, and significant portions of most such cases depend on the client’s own testimony. I’ve encountered this myself a few times when clients have asked me to help them lie (“Would my case be stronger if I said X?”). How to handle such a request?
The easy answer, I suppose, is to tell the client to take a hike. That is not my approach. I am sympathetic to people fleeing persecution who do not understand the asylum system, and who think that lying is the only way to find safety (and who often come from places where lying to the government is necessary for survival). In many cases, such people need to be educated about the U.S. asylum system. When a client asks me to lie, I explain that as an attorney, I cannot misrepresent the truth. I also explain why lying will likely not help achieve the client’s goal, and how we can present the actual case in a way that will succeed. Hopefully this is enough to convince the client to tell the truth.
For individual clients, of course, this type of honesty sometimes has its drawbacks: Cases may be lost, people may be deported–possibly to their deaths, and families will be separated. Some lawyers find this price too high. If you believe your client will be deported to his death and you can save him by lying, perhaps the lie is justified. Mr. Wegner, no doubt, felt that he was doing the right thing for his Albanian client (though a review of Mr. Wegner’s disciplinary record reveals that he has not always served the best interests of his clients). And there are certainly attorneys who believe that the ends justify the means. But I am not one of them.
When all is said and done, I will not lie for a client. I don’t think it is effective, and even if we get away with it in one case, I fear that it would hurt my credibility as a lawyer–and thus my ability to be an effective advocate–in all my other cases. I also feel that it damages the system, which hurts honest applicants.
In the final analysis, even if we ignore his other disciplinary issues, it is difficult for me to feel too sorry for Mr. Wegner. While a lawyer’s zealous representation of his client is admirable, the willingness to cheat corrodes our immigration system and ultimately harms the very people that lawyers like Mr. Wegner purport to help. For me, even the argument that lying is a necessary form of civil disobedience in an unjust system falls flat. Civil disobedience is about sitting at the lunch counter; not stealing the food.
Despite all the imperfections of the immigration system, our primary job as lawyers is to work within that system to assist our clients. We also have a role to play in criticizing and improving the system. But when lawyers lie, we fail as both advocates and as reformers.
Dear jason,
i am an assylum seeker submited a case at bosston MA, 2015 september,still they did not call me for an intervew yet, my kids and wife living back home and they are facing lot of problem, i wanted to bring them soon, how long it take to call me an intervew do you think? is bosston is a sub office
You can get an idea of when to expect the interview if you check the Asylum Office Scheduling Bulletin – a link it at right. You might also consider trying to expedite your case. I wrote about that on March 30, 2017. Take care, Jason
Thank you for the website tell us about so many doubts.
Im in united states pending by asylum since one year ago, but my mom in my country is now very sick and I need see her and try to help her in something. Im thinking in withdraw my asylum aplication, however my girlfriend is american and we want marry, then my doubt are:
1-If I marry and then withdraw the asylum and go to my country, my wife could ask for me for get the resident staying I in my country and she in USA
2- When the immigration service make me the interview in the embassy in my country, they could denied the petition just because I withdraw the asylum request ?
Thank you
Typically, I advise people to marry, get the green card, and then (once they have the green card) withdraw the asylum. You could do that and then travel to your country. Or you could withdraw the case now, travel to your country, and then get your green card at the US embassy. You could also apply for the green card in the US and use Advance Parole (form I-131, available at http://www.uscis.gov) to travel to your country. Finally, and maybe this is a bad choice, you can keep the asylum case going, use Advance Parole to travel to your country and then return, and then file for your green card based on marriage. I do not know if any/all of these options will work for you, but the point is, you have a lot of choices. It would be a good idea for you to talk to a lawyer about the different options to see what is best. Also, it is not always easy to withdraw an asylum case, and a lawyer can help with that too. Take care, Jason
Dear Jason I hope all your activities are lapsing fine. I did not find a way of contact you using blog so I decided to write you privately.
My question is: I was granted withholding of removal ( very good case but applyed after 1 year) back in 2002 I believe.
After that I open a couple of business where I employeed some people ….my business was very successful and I got an offer to buy my agency from a big company. I decide to sell my business and after a while I traveled back permanently to my home country with my wife and my both American citizens children.
I had been over nine years here in colombia and I am planning to travel back to the sates because my 16 year old boy wants to study college in the states and maybe also planning to re open some business in Florida.
I want to know if I should apply for a tourist visa or apply to re entry or to get a job offer from a company.
Please give a short advise so I can decide if I contract your law firm to take care of may case.
Thank you,
Julian Carmona
This is not really something my firm can assist with – we do not do tourist visas or work visas. However, you could try either. Of course, given your immigration history, certain types of visas may be difficult to get – especially the tourist visa. But you can try. Once your US citizen child turns 21, he can sponsor you for a green card. Take care, Jason
Hi Jason
I am surprised to see that Newark NJ asylum office is interviewing for June 2013 for last 3 months
Does that mean office is closed?
I applied in October 2014 and it’s taking too long..can I transfer my case to New York asylum office and still get the interview in the sequence of my application date?without further delays
If you move and your case is transferred, you supposedly keep your place in the queue. I highly doubt that Newark is closed – they are probably focused on other types of cases (like credible fear cases from the US/Mexico border), which get priority over “regular” asylum cases like yours. Depending how USCIS shifts their workload around, Newark may start to move and NY may slow down. It is impossible to predict. Take care, Jason
hello jason…. i am filling asylum case here and my parents want to visit us …….does my case effect their visit visa application???? i mean to say my asylum case could be the reason for their visa denial??
thanks
It might – if it causes the US embassy to think they too will seek asylum, their visas could be denied. We have seen this for spouses, and maybe once for a sibling, but not yet for a parent. Take care, Jason
Hi
I’m happy to tell you that my asylum application was approved about two weeks ago after I waited about two and a half years after the interview.
Now I applied for a travel document and I intend to travel(to a third country of course) for about 60 days. My question is how will that affect my return to USA and my apply for green card a year later?
Thank you so very much for all your help. God bless you
As long as you have the refugee travel document, you should be able to travel and return, and it should not affect your eligibility for the green card. Take care, Jason
Good morning Jason
Any news about interview I. Submit my asylum case with Chicago asylum office and I’m waiting interview since3 years ?
Thank you for help us Jason
The Asylum Office Scheduling Bulletin (a link is at right) tells you who is being interviewed in Chicago. It sounds like you should have been interviewed by now, so you may want to contact the asylum office directly to ask them. If you follow the link at right called Asylum Office Locator, you can find contact info for your asylum office. Take care, Jason
Hi Jason
Thank you for all the help you provide
I have a question I applied for asylum 5 months ago
And I have the reset so now I want to drop my f1 visa
And I called my lawyer and asked him if there something should be done like calling the immigration department so they now that I applied for asylum but my lawyer is not sure what to do
So I need your advice
Thanks
There is nothing to do – if you applied for asylum, you can continue as an F-1 student or you can stop attending school. If you stop school, your status in the US based on the F-1 visa is automatically finished. Take care, Jason
Hi
I interviewed yesterday. I told them that my family in my originial country while they are on third country. Does this effect my case?
Does they refuesd my case because of this.
You case would only be refused on this basis if you (not your family) are “firmly resettled” in a third country – meaning you can live there permanently. Take care, Jason
Hi Jason
Thank you for your effort to share your expertise freely for us. My question is that it’s been 8 months since I applied for asylum and probably I won’t get an interview notice for the coming 2-3 years as per the current trend. I have a valid F1 status(OPT) but my visa is already expired. My company has an interest to send me to Europe for a month on business purposes. I consider it as a good opportunity since it can give me the chance to see my husband out there (its almost two years since we get separated). So my questions are:
1. Can I get advance parol for such kind of business travels even I can get support letter from my company?
2. What is the chance of getting visa renewal for my F1 status from anywhere in the glob if I finally decide to withdraw my pending Asylum application?
Thank you so much Jason
We did have a client once get Advance Parole to go overseas for his job, so it is possible. Given that you filed for asylum, I do not know whether an embassy would renew your F visa, though, since they will think that you plan to stay in the US permanently, not go to the US, finish your studies and leave (as is required by the F-1 visa). If you have Advance Parole, probably you have nothing to lose by trying to renew the F-1 visa, but if you tried that, I would talk to a lawyer about it first, just to be safe. Take care, Jason
The lawyers are right to say it was “sad”
It was sad for the lawyer
It was sad for the client
It was sad for both families
It was sad for the government
It was sad for the tax payer money
It was sad for the writer
It was sad for the readers
And the list goes on..
Nothing or everything or certain things can be justified for human beings depending on which part of the planet their foot is on. When getting justified, who judge you also matter a lot.
Was the lawyer deserving of prison sentence? NO, too much for helping someone in the real world. Victimless inmate?
Was he right to lie? NO, he should have sought other alternatives. (of course everyone knows there weren’t any)
Was the law, bureaucracy, policy and humanity justified to seek deportation of someone who has lived for 44 and half years in the country with 100% ties in every aspect of human life? NO
For things those are simply humane, there should be some sort of policy that makes sense. It would be unjust for that dude, although sounds like not so productive member of the society, to be sent to the country where he spent good 6 months of his life which accounted for whooping 0.003% of his whole life. Too much for controlled substance abuse.
I heard there are naked beaches in florida where it is not legal but “tolerated”. Can’t we have such policy to protect people like him who are technically removable but yet deserves a little sympathy? Or a law even tolerance policy act of 2016 or something?
I agree with you that the “punishment” of deportation seems unfair in a case where the person has been here so long. However, the lawyer solicited his client to lie. It seems not to have helped anyone, and it certainly damages “the system.” I suppose it is a matter of opinion, but for me, I think the prison sentence is probably justified. Take care, Jason
Hi sir,
i applied for Asylum from New york in january 2015.Hope fully my interview will be soon.sir i want to get guidance that at the time of submitting application i missed some things.i want to submit those evidence at the time of interview.so plz guide:
1. A witness was present when i was harmed.may i submit his statement on his letter pad or on which paper? 2. since one year there are many new evidences in my my country with favour my case.may i endorse that news paper and other reports at the time of interview? 3. the human rights commission of pakistan and asain human rights council have written on letter pad in favour of my matter.are they fruitfull? thnx to guide me time to time.
All that sounds helpful. You need to submit it before your interview though (in my office, it must be submitted at least one week before). You may want to check your asylum office website for the rules about filing additional evidence – you can find the website if you follow the link at right called Asylum Office Locator. Take care, Jason
Hi Jason, thank you again for helpful info. Jason, if an asylum case gets denied and the applicant is in legal status, such as TPS, is there a way for the applicant to take his/her case to an immigration court?
If you have TPS, my guess is that they will not send you to court (the rules about TPS are a little weird, so I am not sure). For other legal status, like an F or H1b, they will not send you to court. Take care, Jason
Always a pleasure to read your consistently relevant posts. As an immigration attorney who deals predominantly with the asylum community, being asked to lie, exaggerate, and/or conceal is not uncommon. In addition to telling an applicant I will not misrepresent the truth under any circumstances, I explain that credibility is a hurdle difficult to overcome if one lies. It is one thing to write false information on an application, another to defend those falsities under stressful circumstances. I also tell the client about the penalties of being found to have filed a frivolous asylum application, which can take away future immigration benefits should they become available. If the client still seems unconvinced, I tell them to go elsewhere or file on their own. In short, I feel obligated to overturn the flawed assumption that lying is a short-cut to approval. In reality, a lie usually works to deny an otherwise strong asylum claim, which is where the real tragedy lies.
Agreed – and to me (and probably to you too), it is a double tragedy when the client is convinced to lie by an unscrupulous lawyer who pretends to be working in the client’s best interest and who probably charges a lot of money to boot. Take care, Jason
I agree with you and patti…one must never lie to a U.S. official it never works!! My questions is what is the wait time on refugee travel document and green card after applying 1 year after the approval. Thanks
Travel documents usually take about 4 months and the green card based on asylum is usually 6 to 9 months, but many cases take longer (and once in a while, a case is faster). Take care, Jason
Jason…. thanks for your articles and advice. I got follow request letter appointment from the asylum office regarding my case after conducted interview with 8 months and reinterviewed one month later. What does that mean? …. Thanks.
I do not know what you mean by “follow request letter appointment.” If it is another interview, that does happen sometimes, and you will just have to go and see what they want. If you served in the military in your country, that is a common reason for a re-interview, but there are many other reasons as well, and usually they do not tell you why until you get there (and even then, they often do not tell you). Take care, Jason
thanks Jason
I went to the appointment, and as you wrote it’s re-interview because my military served and actually it’s my third interview even I am independent applicant, I don’t know if we are going to wait for decision or the next re-interview appointment. it become really fun this game, so I forget about it and I live my life as it’s. So what will happen will be it’s what it’s… thanks.
Maybe you should read Kafka or watch the film Brazil – they are both perfect for asylum seekers. I wish you good luck, Jason
dear Jason…
thanks for every things,
would you please accurate the film name for me please … thanks.
That was sort-of a joke, but the film is about being stuck in a bureaucracy. It is called “Brazil”.
Hello Jason,
First of all thank you for all your help. i have learned a lot from your blogs. i filled for I-730 Petition for my wife. and i have just check with the USCIS Website, its updated that the I-730 Petition is approved on 16th February. i want to know the next step and how much time it will take more. my wife in is Pakistan.
please kindly guide me.
please and thank you.
The case will be sent to the embassy and they will send you instructions. Hopefully it will take about 3 or 4 months, but it is not really predictable. Take care, Jason
Hi Jason
I think your articles learn us lot of things everyday.
I have a question for you about what are the further steps if you recieved acceptance for your asylum from the asylum office. How long it takes to get my family here in US?
Regards
If you get asylum, you can file a form I-730 to bring a spouse and/or minor, unmarried children to the US (one form I-730 per person). The whole process varies depending on the country. We have seen cases take 4 months; other cases take a year. Good luck, Jason
Sorry what do you mean by country?
I am from Yemen.
Thank you
I mean, some embassy are faster than others in processing cases. I am not sure about Yemen, or even if the US embassy there is open.
Embassy is closed.
when i am able to file i-730 because they need time for background check.
You can apply for the I-730 within the first two years after your asylum is granted.
i think i can help you with that send me your email ?
Jason,
Your insistence on honesty serves your clients well, not to mention the U.S. justice system. Your heart, too, is in the right place.
Hmm – You wouldn’t happen to be a relative of mine, by any chance?
very good column, Jason, I largely agree with everything you wrote. However, you are more generous than I toward Attorney Wegner. Fraud/deceit are NOT zealous representation in our line of work, and we are not criminal defense attorneys, though many potential clients see it that way. I tell clients that the truth is usually enough to prevail in their asylum claim, but there are ways to tell the truth that help their case and ways to tell the truth that do not help…..a skilled asylum attorney helps to achieve the former and not the latter. As for above comment by Thomas re: lying to escape persecution, the fact is that the US government does not care how many lies someone tells to escape their country, as long as they DO NOT LIE TO ANY U.S. OFFICIAL. Frankly, lying to US officials is not necessary, because it is perfectly acceptable to have a dual intent of a visit/school along with intent to apply for asylum, and the US officials outside the US will not ask such questions in that environment, since those who fear their governments would naturally be afraid to declare an asylum intention while still in their home country.
As usual, I agree with you – there is a difference between immigration lawyers and criminal defense attorneys in terms of our advocacy, and I did not mean to equate the two in the posting; only to illustrate how lawyers push boundaries. I do also believe that legitimate asylum seekers have nothing to fear by telling the truth. The system is not perfect, but given the relatively low standard to prove “well-founded fear,” a legitimate asylum seeker has a high probability of being approved. I hope to one day see you at the asylum office, if they ever start doing cases again. Take care, Jason
i’ll be there next week, doing a THIRD interview – yes, third interview – for a client first interviewed 2.5 years ago. I tell him to look on the bright side, since we are closer than we have ever been to victory!!!
Reminds me of an old Irish drinking song: “And always remember, the longer you live, the sooner your bloody well die.” Probably this makes me a pessimist.
But don’t you think that lying sometimes, in very very extreme circumstances such as intentionally misinterpreting facts about a trip to the U.S. in order to obtain a visa to flee prosecution, is necessary? I feel that lying in this case is justified as long as the person comes clean during his asylum interview and/or infront of an immigration judge.
If you lie to obtain a visa to come to the US in order to escape harm in your country, it does not necessarily block you from asylum (there is a BIA case about this called Matter of Pula). In this post, I am not talking about that type of lie. I am talking about lying to the Asylum Office or Immigration Judge. We have had clients lie to get to the US, and we always advise them to come clean as soon as possible with the US government. In most cases, if you admit the lie and explain yourself, it will not block you from obtaining relief. Take care, Jason